In I Cor 14 there is much information given to us about "tongues" Many today translate tongues as other languages. if all this be true would it be correct to actually say that this section of scripture teaches the need for us to communicate clearly today? Your opinion please.
The principle is there. The major point in chapter 14 is to do things in such a way that the church can hear the message of God and be uplifted in their hearing. It is for this reason I do not prefer to have person play a "Special" on an instrument without the words to the song, for then they are (in a sense) "speaking in an unknown tongue". While they may know the words and be able to praise and worship while playing, no one else does. It is for this same reason I discourage people singing specials in other languages (such as Via De La Rosa) or simply doing sign language to a song in a church that speaks English and has no deaf people. Perhaps I am being old fashioned or grumpy, but the idea of speaking cleary so all can understand appears to be the main point of 1 Corinthians 14.
ReplyDeleteAgreed, the message and everything else should be as clear as possible. I, however, don't have a problem listening to an occassional special with instrument only. The ones I have heard were usually ones that pretty much everybody knew (Amazing Grace, Victory In Jesus). A lady in our church used to play the flute occassionally for a special...she did a good job, felt that she really couldn't sing well, and that playing the flute was her talent.
ReplyDeleteI suppose if it's a song that no one knows, clearness is absent and it's possibly just a performance.
Not sure I totally understand your question Bro Marlin. Care to elaborate??
If a person plays a familiar hymn on an instrument, practically everyone knows the words. It comforts, soothes and blesses as the message pops up in their mind. An instrumental special such as How Great Thou Art, etc is not a performance. I've heard singers and preachers put on a big performance using words.
ReplyDeleteBro. Adrian I guess my train of thought was something like this. Paul used the musical notes to call to our attention. that clear comunication of the word of God is what is important. We now live in a culture where our language, english especialy, takes a lot of turnes. talking to the younger is much more difficult than talking to older. The younger seem to have a language all their own. I think that We are called on to make the message clear to all.
ReplyDeleteSo you are saying IDK to language kids use 24-7. Some more info4U, IDK about it either. They're always talking smack and when they are done, they just TTYL.
ReplyDeleteAll we can do is just minister to them in a clear manner and not judge them too much for their quirky expressions and ways. We probably had ours too that caused the older generation to wonder.
This I know from teaching middle school for years now, if we begin to use alot of their expressions, it's a turn-off to them.
But then if you & I sound like Dr. Theology, that's a turn-off to them also.
Bro. Adrian, Basicaly what I am refering to is the 30 something,s. There are alot in this groupe who are not saved, and have no clue to what we are talking about when we speak in the normal "Church language". They expect it if you can ever get them into a Church service, but in a conversation outside the Church seting they look at you like you are "nuts" and they just do not understand. I personaly am looking for ways to communicate to them. I even obtained a couple of recent books on "Language Arts" and "Verbs". I am looking for others. It is hard for me to believe that words that once had only one meaning now have dozens of meanings.
ReplyDeleteJust a few words to keep you child-lingo-sauvy. Most recent words include: Kuffy = slap. Swoop - steal or punch in jest.
ReplyDeleteTeaching high school English Monday-Friday, I assure you, they know our language. If you simply use words you didn't know outside of church, you'll do alright. Some words to stay away from when talking to lost people who aren't familiar with God's Word or church services. #1 - sin. You use it 100 times, and they finally get up the nerve to ask what it means. You are almost in shock they've never heard the word, and they are embarassed by the look you give them. Instead of "sin" or "transgression", say "breaking God's rules or laws". After all, doesn't the Bible say sin is transgression of the law? Instead of saying "Christ", maybe you can use "The one chosen by God", since Christ does mean the annointed. Instead of saying pray, say "talk to God." Instead of "blessing" or "grace", say "God's gift(s)." The phrase sacrifice is usually thought of as a human or animal being offered up and killed. While this is what happened to Christ, the phrase has taken a slightly different meaning. Perhaps just saying Jesus took our place in death is better than simply saying "Jesus' sacrifice" and expecting someone to know about what we are referring. Other words I've found I should stay away from are "saved/salvation" since they think of being pulled out of the water by a life-raft, "righteousness", "Scripture", "doctrine", "sanctification/sanctified", "justification/justified", "saint", etc. After all, God never commanded us to help lost people know all the teachings of Christ. We are to win them to Christ, baptize them, and then teach them the all things.
Brother Richard,
ReplyDeleteWe aren't talking about "performances". A person can TRULY lift himself up to God, not at ALL performing, and yet do so in a way that NO ONE ELSE in the church grows close to God in any way, shape, or form.
Besides this, I am referring to the songs to which few know the words. I've heard people play songs as "specials" (probably 3 out of 4 instrumentals as specials I've heard) about which I had no clue. I hate it when a group does sign language without words, and I'm left wondering (what was the point of that?) I also don't like the instrumentals where I'm left thinking (well, they played nicely, but I didn't get anything spiritual out of that, because I still don't know if the song was about God, puppy dogs, or cotton candy fluffs). I've seen some churches who encourage the children who play instruments to play secular specials in the service just to be applauded (such as Mary Had a Little Lamb).
I'm surprised I'm actually more conservative on an issue than you are.
Good discussion, Guys keep it coming.
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